Quote from FIZ :

I agree 100% and wanted to add that Steam is not needed for a simulator racing enthusiast.
That "club" is well known, a person don't casually play a racing simulator game.
Every time you google, youtube, etc the words "racing simulators", Live For Speed is always at least present in the list.
Youtube is still the biggest advertiser for games: the reviewers are thousand, any new game is played by many, even live. Comparison videos have always many views.
In these comparison videos, LFS is really popular in racing simulators category: I've heard many people saying "yeah graphics sucks, there are so few cars and tracks etc, but that 'feeling' is unique and you must try it".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZEY2JvWJ4I

You are 100% right. LFS is unique and should be defended for it. This would require a little more ambition than just motivating LFS racers to occupy servers. Things could be done in this direction but our developers are probably too busy...

Quote from NENE87 :

For visibility, you need a real "challenge" with a prize to be won! (to be clear, I hate the physics of other games and I don't care about the graphics) we are all "adults" now, the younger ones fun with hospital bed/sandwich/rocket balloon/... I'm looking for realism and found it on lfs. Every player is looking for what they want, how many people are looking for realism? Steam might disappoint a bunch of "drivers"

I am agree. I have a pretty clear idea of the type of challenge I personally dream of. May be this could fill the servers again and give LFS a lot of visibility. I think it's more constructive to think about what only LFS can do than to resign yourself to doing like any other game.

Quote from lfsrm :

You people need to think a little bit about the game and the community as a whole and not only what your preferences dictate, the devs clearly stated that the game needs more visibility to attract players, but instead you want to bury the game even further just because it "feels good" to be unique.

Do you think that I like bloated program that runs in the background each time I want to play a game ? hell no, but if it what it takes to attract more players, I will gladly embrace the new platform.

and yes, we were all kids/crashers/beginners when we started to play the game, it's up to us the community to guide the newcomers to become better as a players, there is nothing wrong with that.

I thank you for your concern but I am still thinking very well. Compromising with Steam (Or submission to the law of the fittest which is not an idea I am very comfortable with) is not mandatory for developers to escape the worst misery that will force them eating roots until Putin's nuclear warheads finally come to all free us from this cruel world.

There are alternatives, possible marketing strategies, communication plans that cost nothing within the reach of the community...

Not giving in to Steam's siren song is first and foremost an ethical choice. This goes beyond the concerns of my small personal comfort which would require me to sacrifice LFS on the altar of marginality by refusing the resident programs of Steam on my computer. Please be serious.

The longevity of LFS (and its latencies in development, the two are linked) proves the validity of its marketing model. 20 years later, this model seems more contemporary than ever. It is a unique thing that must be defended and claimed. This is written in LFS DNA. Sometimes circumstances demand that one defend one's identity rather than submit.


That's my opinion. That doesn't make me someone who wants to snatch bread out of developers' mouths. And we wonder why the servers are empty?

Quote from lfsrm :

If you have something against steam, please don't drag lfs into this vendetta of yours, steam is probably the most populated gaming platform on PC that offers the necessary visibility for a nich indy game like LFS.

If we go by your logic, they should start selling only physical copies and close their social media accounts since internet induce heavy addiction for the weak and distracted users, plus being heavily regulated by corrupt governments.

Iracing devs are doing it just fine, by using steam as a proxy to direct users to their licensing platform, and even if they sell licences directly on steam that's still bonus incomes for the devs.

Did I mention corrupt governments somewhere?

If we don't admire monopolistic corporations, we are reactionary, backward plotters who want to take the world back to the Stone Age? It's what you think?

Yes I have a lot of things against Steam. But that's not the point and I didn't talk about it here first.

If developers manage to take advantage of Steam without imposing its inconveniences on their players, i have nothing against that. On the other hand, having to go through Steam to play LFS, no thanks. I prefer to reinstall Windows 95 and Codemaster Toca2.

The LFS demo on Steam is advertising for LFS. For it to work, the game must be more attractive with graphic update (we agree).

But the paid version of LFS has nothing to gain to be on Steam. Neither today nor tomorrow or ever.

Steam induces a consuming adictic and harmful that does a lot of harm, including to the online events (to return to the subject).
With Steam you decide to play. The game is unimportant. You have the choice. You can switch from one to another indefinitely (as long as Steam works ...).
Deciding to open LFS to play it, it's different. You are there only for LFS. You ned to find a race that motivates you to join a server. This is another story. The racers don't all want to play bowling with buses ...

Quote from bishtop :

Initially i never saw this as the way forward but my opinion has started to steer towards it probably being best. Even if it was put on steam as a demo game with information on how to buy licenses to unlock all content

Putting the LFS demo on Steam is using Steam to promote LFS. LFS needs visibility. Maybe that's a good thing? (how many licenses were sold with that?).
Forcing players to go through Steam to play LFS is something else. This would add huge constraints (40GB of total pollution, connection obligation, update problem, unwanted advertising...).

Using Steam is like giving the keys to your house to someone who can decide if you have the right to enter and if your house is still yours...

LFS is an off-the-shelf, off-system, indie game. This is also what makes it unique. Platforms like Steam are already the past. The future is the LFS marketing model: The short circuit. Direct from producer to consumer without unnecessary and costly harmful intermediary.

Quote from Kahn62 :

Bots are a problem, never a solution

Bots are the solution for those who don't play online and to discover the game. I'm not narcissistic enough to play against my own ghost and not desperate enough to follow someone else's.

I haven't played online in years. In my memories, online races were even more chaotic than those against bots. Bots don't teach anyone anything. Playing against them allows you to improve. We know that as long as we are not able to raise them to level 5, it is better to stay at home. They are there to make the race livelier by discovering the circuits and the behavior of the cars. They serve to feel less alone while tweaking a setup... Don't ask them to teach courtesy. They are not there for that. But bots are sometimes better company than many cantankerous humans.

Online, it is difficult to drive on the circuit you want with the car you have chosen. Without the bots, I would have stopped playing LFS and wouldn't have bought an S3. I don't think I'm the only one.

AI in games isn't always as bad as you make it out to be. LFS AI could be improved to fix some of the issues you mention. That was the meaning of my comment and my vote.

Quote from Kahn62 :

I did not say it was bad, or undesirable even, I said it was not needed. The graphics are the LEAST IMPORTANT part of a driving game. I would rather have a game with good feel, even it only had a basic wireframe model with a one colour fill on each polygon. But that's just my opinion.

I agree with you. I would even say that the graphics are very good considering the few hardware resources mobilized. I'm afraid the graphics update will change that and sideline some players. It is one of the great strengths of the LFS to be accessible to almost everyone. Also, I was wondering if the graphical enhancement would be a compatible optional patch?

The top priority is the quality of the physics. I voted for improving the AI because the physics are already good (it can be even better, we agree). But better AI would make the game much more attractive. It would also allow new players to acquire a better foundation before playing online.

Quote from Temych :

Let me remind you that there was an agreement with NATO on the non-proliferation of NATO to the east. And this NATO treaty was brazenly violated many times.

It is not a brand of personal hostility or Russophobia, but this agreement does not exist. The question was discussed several times when the Soviet Union existed. However, no such agreement has ever been signed.
On the other hand, the invasion of Ukraine and the non-respect of its territorial integrity violate several commitments signed by Russia between 1994 and 1997 ... but the truth weighs very little before the horrors of the war and its crimes.

[I'm asking the question here because I haven't found any recent information and I don't know if it's appropriate to create a new topic on AI]

I don't know if the current AI is still able to learn but it adapts its best times to the lap. (I have several installations of LFS on different computers and AI times are different)

Does anyone know how the LAP time of the AI is defined? And how to do it (Full race? With qualification? ...) for the AI to adapt to the player's best times?

Thank you for your answers

Thanks George. As you have noticed, I express myself badly in English. I'm glad someone understands me.

I stopped playing other games too long ago to say precisely (technically) what other games have now copied over LFS. What I do know is that at the time of its first release, LFS had a huge lead on all counts except licensing (for official tracks and real cars). The lack of modding also hurt.
LFS remains a game of the future because it gets straight to the point, with no frills. Even with its current physics and graphics, LFS remains the shortest and cheapest path to exceptional driving sensations. LFS also allows you to play in good conditions for almost nothing (multi-screen with an old computer and the force feedback remains very good with an entry-level steering wheel). Then there are other flashier games. But you have to play with Steam and/or pay monthly subscriptions. It's a choice. My choice is LFS.
It may be interesting to know who are the players of LFS to make understand the interest of the game to a new audience?

Good video.

LFS is the result of 20 years of hard work and constant improvement. What current games can compete with that?
The graphics are a bit dated. It's true. But if we compare them to games of the same generation they are very good. The lights are wonderful. And what current games would run equally well on computers over 10 years old?

In its current version, LFS is a historical monument. LFS has achieved the miracle of bringing together several generations of players with very differents aspirations. Kids looking for fun online and nostalgic, reactionary old bears like me, playing alone against the AI.
We criticize everything in LFS. Especially the AI. But the AI of LFS has the merit of... existing. Some very expensive games don't even have AI.
If the LFS AI can be improved (everything can be improved) it remains playable and fun under certain conditions (Level 5, maximum 26 AI to limit pileups, default setup, always start last. Do races of 10 laps maximum to have a small chance of not finishing first...)
What the LFS has that other games don't is that it is popular, intergenerational, multicultural, accessible and democratic.
The LFS is also human and alive. You can jostle Scawen at any time to see if he's still moving. All games have their communities of players but how many have this longevity? That kind of closeness?

When I tested the first playable version of LFS almost 20 years ago, I thought to myself that LFS would outperform all current games. We will not rewrite history. But I sincerely believe that time will prove LFS right.

As extraordinary as the technical qualities of the games of the future are, I am not sure that the future will give us something as rare and valuable as LFS.

Updating AI trajectories via world records may be a good idea (although I don't think replays of these records are always very realistic). But I don't know if it can be done easily. An AI editor on the model of the sound editor (Shift+A) could perhaps allow everyone to adjust the AI as they wish. Or even more simply to be able to manually adjust the time or speed of the AI.

I agree to wait for the graphics update and the track editor. With a little luck I would have died before. I'd rather gouging my eyes out with a tire remover than install Steam to play LFS.

To come back to the subject, one of the many things I find extraordinary with LFS is that you don't have to install 40 GB of useless stuff or be online to play it, not be attacked by ads, don't wait for endless updates before you can play... I also like being able to have multiple versions of the game installed on my computers, do a bit like I want and feel like I'm free. But everyone can have their opinion

Last edited by Avraham Vandezwin, Tue, 8 Mar 2022 18:11.

Quote from Motordirex :

+1. Who needs Steam when you got tyre smoke!

Many other games have had tire smoke for more than 15 years (you can find them on Steam for a few euros). But with LFS, sometimes I feel like I'm breathing in the smell of the burned tire. No other game has ever done this to me...

The day the LFS will be on Steam, this game will have lost its soul and much of what makes it unique and so great. LFS is more than a game. Its a human adventure, a model of independence and freedom. On Steam, LFS would become a commercial product among others. LFS is much more than that.

Hi all ,
I bought an S3 a few days before the announcement of LFS mod support. I specify it because this announcement does not have much repercussions here. Maybe people who just bought an S3 specifically for modding could come up and say so here? It might be helpful. The future of LFS depends on it, since it is the new strategic development priority.

Personally, after playing almost anything that looks like a car simulation since Codemaster's Toca2, I stopped all simracing activity in 2013. For my return to the tracks, I decided to race exclusively on LFS. This is for a number of reasons unrelated to modding and its promises of novelty (although that interests me too).

I had known LFS since its first playable version. I got the S2 when it was released. This game amused us for a while with my son and his friends. But I had never really played it before. Today I have a hard time putting my hands anywhere other than the steering wheel of my FZ50 GTR ... This game is absolutely incredible. A game has never given me so much pleasure. In terms of graphics and physics, I don't know of a game that does so well with such low hardware requirements.

LFS has been improved. But LFS has not been revolutionized over time. The player that I am today is just very different from the one I was in the early 2000s. For example, today I would be unable to enjoy playing on a corner of the table in front of a screen of 15 ''. I would rather rip my left eye out with a fork dipped in vinegar than reinstall Steam on my computer. And I'm no longer willing to spend hundreds of dollars to upgrade my gaming hardware, even if I can ...

The world of simracing has changed a lot since the 2000s. This gives LFS a new place. Today LFS is more than ever a game of the future.

So I was wondering if it would not be interesting to open a topic on the theme: What kind of simracer are you today, in 2021?

I leave it to the moderators and developers (and more generally to those who have more experience of this forum than me, that is to say everyone in fact) the care of judging the interest of this subject.

Here, everyone has their say on everything, everywhere. This is the principle of the forums (I even saw some nice grandpas chatting alone in their corner ). But beyond the primordial interest that this subject would have for anthropologists of the future, this would make it possible to synthesize the profiles and wishes of LFS runners. They could tell there why they like this game? How do they play it? What are their short-term expectations?

Time flies. Before you die (and while waiting for the complete game overhaul which will probably take a few more years since testing mod support will definitely be more time consuming than expected) I guess like me many of you would like to prioritize some minor improvements but very essential for new players to become interested in or come back to LFS.

Good race everyone and forgive me for my kindergarten English.